Phenibut: The Soviet smart drug

1963, St.Petersburg, Russia –  A Soviet Union lab scientist by the name of Perekalin synthesizes 3-phenyl-4-aminobutyric acid, an experimental drug intended to calm psychiatric children.

1964 – Professor Khaunma labels the drug Phenigamma and reports the first findings of its tranquilizing effects in the Byulleten Eksperimental’noi Biologii i Meditsiny.

1975 – Phenigamma has spread from clinical practice to public use under the name of Phenibut. The Soviet Ministry mandates its use for astronauts in space flights due to the drug’s revolutionary psychologically calming yet cognitively stimulating effects.

2001 – Over 300 scientific publications have studied Phenibut’s nootropic and pharmacological properties.

2014 – Phenibut is used all over the globe as a smart drug, mood enhancer, sleep aid and recovery booster.

 

Phenibut Structure

 

Wait, why is a meathead writing about a smart drug?

Because bodybuilding is driven by more than improving your physique. It is a lifestyle of self-improvement. The Ancient Greeks were known for their philosophy that education should encompass physical as well as mental training. The Romans knew it. There was little distinction between education and physical training in the Renaissance and the Age of Enlightenment, but today most people don’t even realize that ‘gym’ stands for gymnasium and bodybuilding has turned from educational virtue to intellectual vice.

 

Tavi Castro Roman Bodybuilding

 

Phenibut’s effects

Phenibut is a derivative of GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid). GABA is the primary neurotransmitter in your body that regulates the neuronal excitability of the central nervous system. Basically, GABA makes sure that your brain does not become hyperactive.

Why not just supplement with GABA directly then? Phenibut crosses the blood-brain barrier more effectively than GABA itself in supplement form. GABA is naturally produced in the brain itself, therefore it normally does not need to cross the blood-brain barrier to be effective [1].

In humans, Phenibut supplementation has 2 main effects [2, 3, 4].

  1. It is a nootropic (smart drug).  Phenibut primarily increases motivation, attention and concentration with a weaker effect on memory and little effect on overall intelligence.
  2. It is a strong anxiolytic (anxiety killer). Phenibut is used to treat panic attacks, stuttering, Parkinson’s disease, neuroses, vestibular (balance) disorders, spasticity, epilepsy, hyperactivity, insomnia and post-traumatic stress disorder. Pick-up artists use Phenibut to shake the nerves of cold-approaching beautiful women.

Both are the result of Phenibut’s effect on the activity of your nervous system.

In addition, Phenibut has mood enhancing effects. It has thymoleptic (anti-depressant) properties  and can reduce irritability and fatigue. It is clinically used to treat asthenic-depressive syndrome. [2]

These psychoactive effects are similar in mechanism to alcohol but without the depressant effects. In the upper/downer classification of drugs, alcohol is a downer, but Phenibut is neither. Phenibut gives you focus and calmth without the jitters of caffeine or the cloudiness of alcohol.

Phenibut’s effects can easily last the rest of the day, even though Phenibut’s plasma half-life is only 5.3 hours [2]. This is because Phenibut’s action on the GABA receptors can linger long after your kidneys have excreted all the Phenibut [16, 17].

 

Not just for Astronauts

Phenibut has a few more effects that are particularly relevant for bodybuilders.

  • Phenibut can increase resting and post-exercise growth hormone secretion. In a study of weight training men, GABA supplementation increased resting growth hormone concentrations by 375%. Post-exercise growth hormone concentration rose by 175%. Baclofen, which works almost exactly the same as Phenibut, also increases growth hormone synthesis. [5, 6, 7, 8]
  • Phenibut is anti-hypoxic. When you train a muscle intensely, it can’t get enough oxygen anymore and become hypoxic. This metabolic stress mediates muscle hypertrophy. Phenibut may thus increase your tolerance to metabolic stress and allow you to train harder. [2]
  • Phenibut is neuroprotective and augments cell energy potential, again possibly allowing you to train harder. [2]

One study also found that Phenibut increased muscle strength, but this finding is likely limited to neurotic and psychotic individuals, because the above study in resistance trained males did not find an increase in weight lifted [5, 6, 9]. You shouldn’t think of Phenibut as a typical ergogenic or performance enhancer anyway. In fact, as I’ll discuss in the dosage section below, excessive Phenibut intake can decrease your performance. Rather, think of Phenibut as a recovery enhancer and don’t expect miracles from it.

In my experience, Phenibut works best in very lean individuals. Phenibut can counteract the natural decrease in growth hormone production associated with being lean. This may help your joints stay healthy and keep your metabolism high. Phenibut’s mood enhancing effects are also very beneficial here, as anyone who’s ever been below 7% body fat will be able to tell you.

 

The optimal Phenibut dosage

The vast majority of studies have only researched dosages up to 3 grams a day. At these dosages, no psychological side effects are found [2, 10]. However, many people take much higher dosages for longer periods of time. This is the same more is better fallacy that leads people to drastically overestimate how much protein they need per day and become addicted to caffeine. Like caffeine, Phenibut feels great and seems harmless, so people consume high amounts of it on a regular basis. The result is addiction: tolerance to the good effects and withdrawal when ceasing supplementation. And they pay the price. Phenibut withdrawal is hell. When coming off 20 grams a day, you can literally become psychotic for a while [13]. Tapering off the dose will minimize withdrawal symptoms, but my recommendation is to avoid becoming addicted in the first place.

To find the optimal Phenibut dosage, we have to look at the extensive research on animals and calculate the human equivalent dose by correcting for the interspecies difference in metabolism. The 3 step formula below converts an animal dose to its human equivalent. This can be used for any compound, not just Phenibut. I know it’s a bit technical, so I’ve created a Phenibut dosage calculator that does the math for you.

  1. Your Body Surface Area (m²) = 0.007331 x Height (cm)0.725 x Weight (kg)0.425 [11, 12] It’s important to calculate your BSA and not use 1.6 as a default, because this will lead to an underestimation in bodybuilders and an overdose in lean women.
  2. Your Km factor = Weight (kg) / body surface area (m2) [14]
  3. Multiply the animal dosage by the animal’s Km factor divided by your own Km factor to get the human equivalent dose [14].
  4. Calculate the HED for 70 mg/kg in mice for the maximum pre-workout/side effects dosage threshold and use 200 for the addiction threshold.

 

Phenibut HED Dosage

 

Using 3 grams of Phenibut a day consistently results in a strong tolerance to Phenibut’s effects and withdrawal when no longer taking the drug [2, 17]. Addiction takes less than 10 days to develop [16, 17]. A 5’10” (1.78 m) adult weighing 176 lb (80 kg) will develop a tolerance to using 1.2 grams of Phenibut a day [16]. It is unfortunately not known how low the Phenibut dose has to be not to result in addiction, so it’s best to err on the side of safety.

Phenibut is better taken after than before your workouts. Based on the above stats, just 0.4 gram of Phenibut decreases motor cortex activity, muscle tone, coordination and body temperature. I already explained how these factors contribute to the best time to work out, but the short version is simply that too much pre-workout phenibut is bad for your performance.

Phenibut can be a wonderful drug, but it is not to be trifled with. In short, don’t be an idiot. This may seem like common sense, but “if sense were common, everyone would have it”. In fact, it bears repeating. Don’t be an idiot.  Use the above formulas to calculate the best Phenibut dosage for your goal. Limit your pre-workout dosage to a maximum of ~0.5 gram, your daily dosage to ~1 gram and never consume more than ~3 grams unless you know exactly what you’re doing.

Perhaps most importantly, Phenibut’s effects are highly mediated by stress and anxiety. So your personality type and the situation strongly determine how much benefit you will experience from Phenibut. If you are not in a stressful or social situation and you have a naturally calm personality, you may not feel anything from Phenibut unless you take several grams. So experimentation and timing is everything to find the dosage that works for you. It’s a drug, not some supplement you take daily just to take it.

 

Buying Phenibut

Phenibut is a legal dietary supplement in practically every country and is generally available over the counter. This is another reason why people underestimate it. There is almost no relation whatsoever between the legal status and the safety of drugs. Seriously, don’t be naive, learn to think for yourself and stop blindly internalizing what your government tells you. Phenibut is one of those drugs that fortunately seems to have slipped through the (many) cracks of legislation, but this won’t be for long if more idiots start mega-dosing the stuff and the media gets a hold of someone hallucinating in a McDonald’s pointing at fat people and hysterically shouting at the manager “It’s alive!”

 

Fat people everywhere

 

Anyway, Phenibut can be tricky to obtain despite it being legal. Most supplement stores and Amazon don’t carry it anymore. Enter my secret supplement buying method: eBay. Don’t bother with the auctions. Just find a top rated seller for ‘Buy it now’.

 

Edit: You can also buy phenibut here with free shipping and a money back guarantee.

 

Take-home messages

  • Phenibut is a smart drug, mood enhancer, sleep aid and recovery booster.
  • You can buy it on eBay or here.
  • Use the formulas in this article to calculate the maximum dose you can use without side effects or addiction.

 

References

Click here to see the scientific references

Tip: use the Google Translate plug-in for your browser if you want to delve into the Russian literature.

1. Khaunina, R.A., Maslova, M.N., 1968. The pharmacologic activity and cerebral
permeability of gamma-aminobutyric acid and its derivatives. Rus. Vopr.
Psikhiatr. Nevropatol. 13, 583–591.
2. Phenibut (beta-phenyl-GABA): a tranquilizer and nootropic drug. Lapin I. CNS Drug Rev. 2001 Winter;7(4):471-81.
3. Sytinsky, I.A., Soldatenkov, A.T., 1978. Neurochemical basis of the therapeutic
effect of gamma-aminobutyric acid and its derivatives. Prog. Neurobiol. 10,
89–133.
4. Neumyvakin, I.P., Krupina, T.N., Polevoi, L.G., Semeikina, L.A., 1978. Principles for making up pharmaceutical kits to supply cosmonauts with drug packs. In Rus. Kosm. Biol. Aviakosm. Med. 12, 27–31.
5. GABA Supplementation and Growth Hormone Response. Powers M. Lamprecht M (ed): Acute Topics in Sport Nutrition. Med Sport Sci. Basel, Karger, 2012, vol 59, pp 36–46
6. Powers, M. E., Yarrow, J. F., McCoy, S. C., & Borst, S. E. (2008). Growth hormone isoform responses to GABA ingestion at rest and after exercise. Medicine and science in sports and exercise, 40(1), 104.
7. Cavagnini F, Benetti G, Invitti C, et al. Effect of gamma-aminobutyric acid on growth hormone and prolactin secretion in man: influence of pimozide and domperidone. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1980;51:789–92.
8. Cavagnini F, Invitti C, Pinto M, et al. Effect of acute and repeated administration of gamma aminobutyric acid (GABA) on growth hormone and prolactin secretion in man. Acta Endocrinol (Copenh). 1980;93:149–54.
9. Mehilane LS, Rago LK, Allikmets LH. Pharmacology and clinic of phenibut. Tartu: Izd. TGU, 1990
10. Lapin IP, Khaunina RA. Pharmacology and clinical use of gamma-aminobutyric acid and its derivatives. In: Role of gamma-aminobutyric acid in the activity of the nervous system. Leningrad: Izd. LGU, 1964:101–115
11. Determination of body surface area and formulas to estimate body surface area using the alginate method. Lee JY, Choi JW, Kim H. J Physiol Anthropol. 2008 Mar;27(2):71-82.
12. Body surface area in normal-weight, overweight, and obese adults. A comparison study. Verbraecken J, Van de Heyning P, De Backer W, Van Gaal L. Metabolism. 2006 Apr;55(4):515-24.
13. Högberg, L., Szabó, I., & Ruusa, J. (2013). Psychotic symptoms during phenibut (beta-phenyl-gamma-aminobutyric acid) withdrawal. Journal of Substance Use, (00), 1-4.
14. Dose translation from animal to human studies revisited. Reagan-Shaw S, Nihal M, Ahmad N. FASEB J. 2008  Mar;22(3):659-61.
15. Adapted from Dave Asprey.
16. Effect of multiple daily administration of fenibut and diazepam on GABA and benzodiazepine receptors in the mouse brain. Riago LK, Sarv KhA, Allikmets LKh. Biull Eksp Biol Med. 1983 Dec;96(12):49-50.
17. Peripheral mechanism of the phenomenon of fenibut habituation. Gusel’ VA, Smirnov DP. Farmakol Toksikol. 1980 Jul-Aug;43(4):431-3.

92 Comments

  1. Danny says:

    Sounds good. So how is Phenibut different from all the other legal drugs around? Why choose Phenibut over something else?

    • Well, there aren’t that many legal drugs, depending on where you live. Phenibut is hard to compare to any other drug. It’s certainly not for everyone, but if you’re interested after the article, I think it’s worth trying to see for yourself. That’s most important.

      • Danny says:

        I just bought some because of your article. So what’s your personal experience with this supplement?

        I’m 75 kg at 185. What daily dosage should I take? I can’t quite figure out the formula. Btw, how do I measure something like 0,3-0,4 grams :-).

        • Tolerance develops at (g) 1.2
          Side effects occur at (g) 0.4

          Measuring requires either prefilled capsules, a measuring scoop or a digital scale.

          I’m basically the opposite of the type that responds well to Phenibut (calm and conscientious personality, male, low stress life), so it doesn’t do much for me in daily life.

          • Danny says:

            So far my experiences with Phenibut:

            0,4 grams, no noticable effect
            0,9 grams, no noticable effect
            1,3 grams, no noticable effect (although my pupils were highly dialated)
            Next up is 1,8 grams. I don’t expect much of it anymore.

          • What are you taking it for? If your pupils dilate, it is physically effective, but if you’re not anxious, you won’t feel much mentally.

          • Danny says:

            I hoped it could help me to relax more and possibly take away some social anxiety. It seems to “space me out” because I’m feeling sort of numb and I keep forgetting what I wanted to do a couple of seconds later.

          • Interesting, sleep deprivation could be a cause. Some people have had success combining Phenibut with a stimulant like caffeine AKA the green tea strategy.

  2. Jon Haugen says:

    That formula! Madness!

    Hehe.

    My height is 187 cm and weight is 105 kg. What dosage should I be aiming for?

  3. Sergi Papaseit says:

    If you don’t feel like calculating your BSA, you can always use this:
    http://www.halls.md/body-surface-area/bsa.htm

    Because. Internet.

  4. jb says:

    You lost me at the formula hahaha. Please do the math for me ;) im 1.83 and 85 kg

  5. bam says:

    my BSA is 2.31. My Km factor is 39.9.
    So where’s the animal dose I’m supposed to use to calculate the HED from?

    • Using mice, 200 mg/kg for tolerance/addiction and 70 for the first potential occurrence of side effects.

      • bam says:

        Here’s an example calculation using my height (192 cm) and my weight (85 kg). Menno, please let me know if this is right. (Note: the symbol “^” means exponent)

        First calc my BSA = 0.007331 x 192cm^0.725 x 85kg^0.425 = 2.19

        Next calc my Km factor = 85km / 2.19 = 38.81

        Next calc two HEDs: one for the maximum daily dose to avoid addiction and the other is the maximum daily dose to avoid side-effects. (HEDmax and HEDse, respectively)

        HEDmax = 200 * (3 / 38.81) * 85kg = 1314 mg
        HEDse = 70 * (3 / 38.81) * 85kg = 460mg

        So for me, I can take 1.3g a day to avoid addiction, but will still feel the side-effects. On workout days, I’ll take 400mg to avoid the side effects. I plan to take both just before bed.

        Hoep this helps.

  6. Anders says:

    Would love to see an example on the formula.
    Say 190 cm at 89 kg ;)

  7. Height 163, weight 60kg, female

  8. RLH says:

    1.85, 88kg. So the advice is to stay under the side effect dossage?

    • Pre-workout, yes, but otherwise it depends on if you prefer the main effects over the side effects. Loss of motor control isn’t a problem if you use Phenibut as a sleep aid, for example. I would however recommend that your average daily dosage stays below the addiction threshold. In your case that’s 1.3 g (0.5 for side effects).

  9. kp says:

    Would love to know my dose, 1.76cm 72.5kg

  10. PN says:

    I’m 184cm and 81.65kg what should my dosage be?
    Thanks!

  11. Emmitt says:

    You lost me at the math part Menno.

    What dosage would you recommend for someone 6 feet tall and 215 lbs?

    Great article by the way, really enjoy reading your work!

  12. Christian says:

    Well written and unbiased article on a different, yet very interesting subject. As always

  13. Manuel says:

    I am 172cm and 75.3 kg.menno could u write down here the formula? I didn’t get how to get the animal factor etc only the first two points I managed..

    • Addiction threshold (g) 1.1
      Pre-workout threshold (g) 0.4

      • Manuel says:

        Hey Menno thanks!

        Why are we talking pretty workout dosages for this drug if you advise against taking it pretty workout but rather pretty sleep/pretty stressful event!?

        • I’m advising a maximum for your pre-workout dosage. That means I do not recommend you take more than this, i.e. quite the opposite of actually recommending that you take it pre-workout.

          • Manuel says:

            Hey Menno!

            Sorry for misunderstanding what you meant!

            I tend to be quite “stressed” if you can say that, maybe “anxious” is more proper in this case” when I am at my work and I am going through some hard time developing or making algorithms etc, and I often find myself to bite my nails (i’ve done it for a long time). Do you think this could help me being more “calm” and relaxed which could result in stopping this bad habit too? maybe worth a try?

            Also do you just get the powder and mix it with water?

          • It’s worth trying then, I’d say, yes.

            See another comment for how to dose it. You can mix the powder with water, yes, and chuck it down.

          • manuel says:

            Hey Menno,

            I just bought it, and I was wondering something i might not have understood fully.

            Should you take this only during particular situations? or everyday? (with <0.4grams on workout days to avoid side effects).

            As I said I'd like to see if it'd help me with my nail biting (form of anxiety) and I bite them everyday, that's why I ask you how often and when during the day would be best?

          • Depends on what you use it for. It’s a drug. You take it for its psychoactive effect. In your case, if you have chronic anxiety, taking it daily is probably warranted though.

  14. Terrance Jones says:

    Hello Menno,
    I must be missing something. If your stating that taking this pre workout may cause motor issues what’s the benefit to using it pre workout then? Can we just take it with the post workout shake or pre sleep? Or does it have to be in the system pre workout? If needs to be in the system pre workout can we take it in the 3 to 5 hours pre workout and still get the effect? Using the calculator my recommended dos is .4g pre workout on now workout days if nothing stressful is going on then that means it doesn’t need to be supplemented? I don’t want to get an addiction.

    • I’m advising a maximum for your pre-workout dosage. That means I do not recommend you take more than this, i.e. quite the opposite of actually recommending that you take it pre-workout, i.e. don’t take it pre-workout unless you have a good reason.

  15. Sweet stuff, hopefully I’ll be able to find some Phenibut where I’m from.

    Would appreciate if you can count my optimal dose.

    I’m 75kg and 178cm.

    Thanks Menno!

  16. Lars says:

    So…for 172cm and 92kg I get the following values:
    BSA: 2.09
    Km factor: 44,019
    Addiction threshold: 1 254mg
    Side effect threshold: 438mg

    I ordered som 250mg pills so that I wouldn’t have to measure all the time. Would it be beneficial to take 2 on training days and 4 on non training days? I know the 2 are slightly over the side effect threshold, but dropping down to 1 would be far below it.

    Is it beneficial to have days off of it?

  17. Al says:

    Is it ok to use every day? Should we cycle usage?

  18. Rob S says:

    I’ve experimented with some other nootropics, phenibut was one I looked into but the reviews on the web were so so compared to some other ones. I’ve only tried aniracetam and oxiracetam. Both have some effect on me but I prefer oxiracetam. It does to me what phenibut is supposed to do, helps me study and makes me a little more cerebral. I supplement them with choline bitartrate too since from what I understand they use choline and if for some people their choline gets used up by using these nootropics. Ebay is the way to go especially if you live in the states they have lots of good sellers. I bought a .01 gram to weigh all three powders with too and its worked pretty well. Might give phenibut a try if its not too expensive. Thanks for the article Menno.

  19. Mr. E says:

    Bought Phenibut after reading this article, took it when it got in the mail, but should have read the comment about taking it in the evening or afternoon. Took it in the morning and felt drowsy when it kicked in(drowsiness was gone with about 4,5 hour). Even when this could be because of the moderate drinking the day before, or having some stress already (writing a thesis with minimal data availability tends to do that)

    However, I wonder that if you take it in the afternoon (let’s say 17:00), will the effects really last till the next day? And further, if you take it the day before a workout, does this still affect your motor cortex activity and body temperature, or do these (negative) side effects subdue faster than the positive effects? If the former is true, wouldn’t it be wise to take a workout dosage on the day before your workout, and a normal dosage a day before your rest day?

    Thanks in advance.

  20. Shaun says:

    Hi there,

    Excellent article and web site!

    I just had a quick question. If a person takes just 0.4 grams a day shortly before they go to sleep, will you still reap the effects on weight training during the day? Ie The:

    Phenibut can increase resting and post-exercise growth hormone secretion.

    Thanks!

  21. Howl says:

    I hope that one day I’ll find here some info on how GHB/GBL affects our body in bb/sport environment ;).

    • There’s not that much research on it. One study found no long term effects of GHB in alcoholics but the authors suggested that this was due to impaired neuro-endocrine functioning in this group. Theoretically it should be positive as GHB promotes growth hormone production. It definitely looks like a superior option to alcohol though.

  22. phil says:

    hi really great article. based onmy stats what would be the dosage (my comp is really bad and have trouble with the calculator…) im 177,8cm around 155-157 lbs.

  23. Jeff says:

    Nice information, thoughtfully presented and well documented. Thank you.

    The best reason to try it? How about going to a party and socializing and having a great time just like you had been drinking, but then being fully capable of driving home responsibly (just make sure you are not one of those that tends to go to sleep on the stuff – test it first). The sedative effects can be countered, at least for me, by combining it with a 250 mg Rhodiola supplement.

    These dosages seem too high to me. I tried 1 G at first a couple times a week and did not like the effects. I then found that I could take just 500mg at night, have a great sleep and feel the most pronounced effects the next day. What you don’t want to do is take a dose, and then take another an hour later because you don’t feel anything, and then another and so on. For me the effects can take 12 hours to fully develop, and there is a definite difference between the effects of low dosing and high dosing. Therefore, take the one dose, wait a day, if it is insufficient, next time take more, etc. Work into it at a cautious pace.

    I also do not think anyone should be taking this daily. It is one of the worst substances for this. it has a crazy quick addiction and tolerance factor and withdrawl symptoms when overused are exponentially worse than are the beneficial effects, when used properly. don’t play around with this substance.

  24. Matt Calvello says:

    Would you recommend this for the sole purpose of increasing HGH levels?

  25. I love phenibut. I use a much lower dosage than most people recommend though- even just 500 grams produces a strong reduction in anxiety and makes it easier to go to sleep, and anything over a gram produces a mild hangover into the next day. Great drug. Tolerance can be terrible though, so I only use it about 3 times a week.

  26. Derrick Wilcox says:

    Very interesting article. I just went ahead and ordered some prior to reading this article, and I was afraid it might negatively impact my lifting.
    What’s the math for 165lbs 5’9″?

  27. Alexey says:

    Can you compare Phenibut’s effect with L-tyrosine at 2-3g pre-workout?
    L-tyrosine is reported to be potent antianxiety drug and helps concentration in gym, which is pretty much the same as you would expect from Phenibut

  28. Charles says:

    The study that showed increased growth hormone by 375% / 175% with plain GABA was a bit of a surprise, since why would steroid users be injecting a controlled substance when an inexpensive, legal oral supplement is so effective…

    Digging into it there appear to be a lot of isoforms of growth hormone and GABA boosts specifically Immunoreactive Growth hormone (irGH) and Immunofunctional Growth Hormone (ifGH):

    https://examine.com/supplements/gaba/#summary4

    In your article, this growth hormone boost was listed under “Phenibut has a few more effects that are particularly relevant for bodybuilders” – but is it relevant? I haven’t pieced together what these particular isoforms of GH do, but so far, they don’t seem directly connected to, for example, raised IGF-1 levels, or implicated in the improved healing that has been demonstrated for GH/IGF-1.

    My interest comes from noticing that sleeping after phenibut seems to heal my golfer’s elbow a bit. I was trying to figure out if that’s a direct pharmacological effect or just *really* good sleep :)

    • Growth hormone is certainly overrated for bodybuilding and its effects, especially those of short peaks, are very limited, but they’re all positive.

      • Charles says:

        It sounds like you’re suggesting that phenibut, with its quite long half-life, would be a more meaningful booster of HGH than GABA, which would be expected to produce a short spike.

        And yes, I agree, HGH seems to boost collagen production in fascia, but has no significant effect on muscle protein synthesis per se – best exemplified by this study:

        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19933753

        But my main question was: GABA/phenibut/baclofen seem to boost production of particular isoforms of HGH – do you know (or can you speculate :) as to whether these isoforms would produce the various effects attributed to HGH, in studies like the above?

  29. Jay says:

    Menno when you see those numbers of gh release from gaba resting. would phenibut
    Also contribute to fat loss if you take it before bed cause i know hgh is overated with anabolism but for staying lean i heard it is pretty usefull. I am curious about your input

  30. Steve says:

    Phenibut capsules have definitely helped me overcome my social anxiety, i actually took some the day I asked my current girlfriend out the first time. Got mine at nootropicuniverse.com good results

  31. Malte says:

    I’ve never taken any drugs in my life except alcohol, or more specifically, I only drink beer. But quite a lot of it. I really like it, but also psychologically I find it hard to go for long periods without the relaxing state of being intoxicated. Of course also helpful in social situations, especially for me who is shy with strangers.

    So my problem is that I find myself unable to eliminate the beer from my diet for more than 1-2 weeks, because I miss the mental state it puts me in. And due to my high genetic tolerance to alcohol, I can drink a lot without feeling much (even after long abstention), so I can easily drink 5 liters in one evening – that is a lot of calories.

    The obvious problem is that beer makes fat and is bad for training. So I was thinking how I could replace it with something that also makes me feel good but has no calories. I was thinking to try weed but I’m afraid it will make me even more lazy and lethargic, and also it’s still technically illegal here.

    This Phenobut stuff sounds really interesting, so I did some reading around and found a lot of experience reports. Some of them are pretty horrific, but they are from heavy drug users on drug-related websites, these guys took many grams of it daily over long periods of time. Still, I’m really careful about such stuff, with my father being a heroin addict. Also health is a big concern – but drinking a lot of beer is not exactly healthy, either.

    So I wonder if you or anyone else here has actual experience with using just 500mg of Phenobut once or twice a week, but regularly and over a long period. Will it continue to work? Was the effect noticable? Do you think it can be a replacement for alcohol for someone like me? Most importantly, is that an absolutely safe dosage to not become addicted? To not become gradually unable to control the dosage and increasing it ‘against my will’? (I’m 183 cm and ~84 kg)

    • Alcohol addiction is a serious issue that no supplement alone is going to fix, but phenibut may help. As long as you stick to the recommended guidelines, it’s safe for long term use.

      • Malte says:

        I am not addicted to alcohol, unless you define addiction as the psychological desire to get into an altered state of mind occasionally. But I sometimes go weeks without drinking. In fact I had been starting to dislike the high from alcohol for a while… I like the mood-enhancing effects it can have, but sometimes it works in the opposite way, and in any case it kills motivation, interferes with training and makes sleepy and that is just annoying. Which is why your article on Phenibut made me curious.

        Alright, I decided to try it and took 500 mg yesterday in the early evening. I guess I had a little too much respect for the stuff… I didn’t feel anything. I had barely slept the night before. But not only did I not feel any psychological effect, it also didn’t help me sleep any faster, deeper or longer. (I got my Phenibut from Mind Nutrition which looks like a reputable outlet.)

        Kind of disappointing, but then 500 mg is very little. I will give it another try with 1500 mg on the weekend.

        • Malte says:

          After taking 1500 mg today before a party, I felt a slight mood-enhancing effect. It was so subtle that it could also have been coincidence or placebo effect, but I’m reasonably sure that it came from the Phenibut. A few more tests should confirm or disprove this.

          I have to say that the formula in this article, or any other formula, is pointless. Based on my experience and hundreds of experience stories I read before trying this stuff it’s quite clear that what dosage will make you feel effects depends almost entirely on genetic factors and has almost nothing to do with weight or height. Same as some skinny people can drink a lot of alcohol even when they start drinking without showing strong effects while other, much heavier people get drunk from a few shots. I am naturally tolerant to alcohol and have always been so even when I started drinking at 16. I assume there is a connection to my seemingly high natural tolerance to Phenibut without prior consumption.

  32. om says:

    are the dosage recommendations from the calculator based on Phenibut HCl or F Phenibut? I know they have different intensities

  33. Alejandro says:

    Hey Menno,

    What brand or type of phenibut would you recommend? I would say there’s a chance the quality of different producers might vary. I probably think it’s the Absorb health product which you showed in the article, but I just wanted to be sure.

    Second of all, I would like to thank you for you work. It’s very helpful!

    Best regards,

    Alejandro

  34. Bee says:

    As a natural bodybuilder, how long do you recommend me to use this? If I take just 0.4 grams a day (7 days a week) shortly before going to sleep.
    3 weeks on, 1 week off?

    Most supplementshops recommend to use this max 3 times a week?

  35. Johan says:

    I can’t work out the calculation formula. Could you help me please?

    Height: 176 cm
    Weight: 73kgs

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